WASHINGTON — “Baloney.”

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema couldn’t wrap her mind around the notion that North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis has changed since announcing last summer he wouldn’t seek reelection.

“Thom Tillis is Thom Tillis,” Sinema told The News & Observer of Raleigh in an interview. “He does what he believes in, and he has always done that.”

Sen. Chris Murphy had a similar view on whether Tillis has changed.

“I don’t really think that’s true,” Murphy told The N&O. “It’s probably true that he’s been a little bit more loose-tongued since declaring that he was retiring, but before he decided he was retiring, he was the bridge-builder in the Senate. He was the guy that helped make this place work, and that is still true.”

Tillis made national headlines after announcing the end of his reelection campaign and that he wouldn’t seek a third term. Since then, he’s been outspoken about criticizing some of President Donald Trump’s advisers and isn’t afraid to speak against his party when he feels it’s warranted.

But Tillis said he is acting no differently than before announcing his retirement from politics.

And indeed, the Huntersville Republican has a long history of bucking his party, often in tandem with like-minded senators from across the aisle — including Sinema, a Democrat-turned-independent from Arizona, or Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut.

Tillis told McClatchy in an exclusive interview that the Republican Party is at an inflection point coming into the midterm elections. Maintaining Republican power is his goal, he said, and he doesn’t have the time to sugarcoat what’s driving poll numbers.

“You’re looking at the same polls I am,” Tillis said. “You’d have to be blind not to see some of the headwinds that Republicans have going into November.”

Retiring from politics

No one expected Tillis’ decision to drop his reelection campaign that Sunday in June.

But Tillis made his own path to winning a Republican primary far more difficult by taking a stand against Trump’s signature legislation, arguing the One Big Beautiful Bill could end health insurance coverage for hundreds of thousands of North Carolina’s Medicaid recipients.

Trump singled Tillis out on social media, and Tillis texted the president, “Start looking for my replacement.”

He ended his campaign the next morning.

“I had a doctor text me ... and say, ‘Hey, man, I know it’s tough times. I hope you’re doing OK,’” Tillis said.

His fitness tracker indicated he was just fine, he said, with a solid night of sleep until 9 a.m. and a resting heart rate of 37 beats per minute.

Tillis, 65, said that’s probably the best testament to how little things get under his skin.

Making headlines

Hill staffers and senators have told McClatchy that Tillis seems more relaxed and at peace since his decision, even as observers have noted his willingness to take on his party and labeled it:

—“Tillis unleashed”

—“Tillis unchained”

—“Tillis unfiltered”

In early March, Tillis called for the resignation of Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. A few days later, he labeled the advice of Trump aide Stephen Miller as “amateurish,” and “absurd.” (Trump fired Noem; Miller remains.)

To the public reading those headlines, it might feel like whiplash from the senator who confirmed Trump’s nominees — even the controversial ones — as the president began his second term.

Tillis concedes that he can speak freely now.

“I can just say what I have to say,” Tillis said. “People can disagree with it, then I’ll have a discussion with them. But I know I don’t have to get on the phone with my political team and figure out how many town halls, how many mailings and how many ads I’m going to have to do to get to the factual basis of whatever I said.”

“So in that way, I don’t have that filter,” he added.

What Tillis doesn’t want though, he said, is to end his political career like Reps. Adam Kinzinger or Liz Cheney. The two Republicans helped investigate the Jan. 6 insurrection in the U.S. Capitol.

“They were ready to burn the party down by the time they left,” Tillis said. “If you go back and see the things that I am raising concerns over, it always tracks directly to voter sentiment and us losing ground, particularly with unaffiliated voters.”

And indeed, Tillis rarely blames Trump, the leader of his party.

Multiple people, including Tillis, said he maintains a good relationship with the president.

He’s repeatedly defended Trump, equating him to a CEO and saying that CEOs take advice from the people around them. It’s people like Miller or Noem that are feeding the president bad advice that could affect his legacy, Tillis said in recent weeks.

Trump doesn’t always reciprocate Tillis’ restraint.

Trump told ABC News that Tillis was “a loser,” grouping him with Sen. Lisa Murkowski, a Republican from Alaska. He called both terrible senators.

“Tillis decided to drop out,” Trump told the outlet, “So you know, he lost his voice once he did that.”

Tillis vs. the GOP

Tillis has had no problem calling out individual members of his own party.

Ask former Rep. Madison Cawthorn or former Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson. Both North Carolina Republicans were once considered the party’s future until they were taken out by self-made scandals.

And last month, The New York Times reported that Tillis — a former North Carolina House speaker — helped raise money against state Senate leader Phil Berger, a Republican, who came into state legislative leadership in 2011 with Tillis.

Berger’s team did not respond to an emailed request to speak for this article.

Tillis confirmed to McClatchy he got on a Zoom call where he knew people had concerns about Berger and helped raise money to support Rockingham County Sheriff Sam Page, Berger’s opponent in the Senate District 26 primary.

Tillis told McClatchy he is frustrated that state lawmakers can’t pass a timely budget, that leaders of the House and Senate are openly sniping at each other, and that Berger didn’t stand with him over the state’s Medicaid coverage.

“I expect more out of our most senior legislators,” Tillis said.

Berger ended up losing his reelection to Page by 23 votes, meaning both lawmakers who came into power together will leave politics together.

He adds he doesn’t hold grudges, but he settles scores and then moves on.

“Except for Stephen Miller,” Tillis said. “That score can never be settled.”

Tillis on whether he’s changed

So what are Tillis’ thoughts about whether he changed?

“I haven’t changed in terms of going after controversial stuff,” Tillis said. “My gosh, the first thing I did when I was six months into my legislative term as a six-month-old freshman was negotiate renewable portfolio standards, a first of its kind in the Southeast.” The mandates in the renewable standards helped set off a solar energy boom in the state.

“And that was nine months after I beat the fair-haired boy of the Republican Party in North Carolina: Civitas’ Legislator of the Year, John Rhodes.”

Tillis said Cawthorn reminded him of Rhodes: “Someone more worried about getting attention, than getting things done.”

Rhodes didn’t respond to a voicemail seeking comment for this article.

“They were making resolutions at the county level for John Rhodes Day, and I came in like a leper, so how is that any different?” Tillis asked.

Tillis, the businessman

Before politics, Tillis was an entrepreneur.

Born in Jacksonville, Florida, Tillis is the oldest son of six children, and moved 20 times before turning 17.

By 8, he had a lawn mowing business.

Then a newspaper route.

By 12, he had a work permit and was paying Social Security: $33 that year.

What was he doing then?

Walking Miss Wright’s cat. On a leash. Down the street.

“She had a cat,” said Tillis — himself more of a dog lover. “It turns out this cat would walk on a leash, so I would take the cat for a walk, and she would either pay me in money or biscuits.”

He learned to find ways to bring in an extra dollar from his parents, who sold Avon, wax figures and ornaments his mother made. By his sophomore year, he was self-sufficient.

Tillis wasn’t able to afford college, so he began working in as a warehouse clerk, but hated it and signed up for classes at technical schools — setting him up for a business career where he climbed the corporate ladder to partner at Pricewaterhouse, where he made $1 million annually.

He eventually earned a degree from University of Maryland Global Campus at 35 after juggling both classes and work.

But then he walked away from it all.

The politician

Tillis laughs when recalling the warning he gave his wife, Susan, about his future, using the same bluntness people are now noticing.

“On our first date ... apparently over the course of three hours, I told her I was likely going to be in public service someday and that if I had a son, his name had to be Thomas Ryan.”

He acknowledged immediately to McClatchy that that was “weird for a first date” and that “she should have run.”

Instead, they got married, and he did both.

Tillis’ first flirtation with public service — outside his childhood role as school safety patrol officer for the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office or student-government president in high school — came in Cornelius, when he joined a local board while pushing for a bike trail.

He, Susan, and their children, which include daughter, Lindsay, moved to North Carolina after he fell in love with Lake Norman on a business trip.

Then, in 2003, he was elected to the town’s board of commissioners, and in 2006, he made his run for the state House where he defeated Rhodes.

Flipping the state

That is when he met his political consultant, Jordan Shaw.

In 2009, Shaw was working as the communications director for the state party. Tillis was in his third year in the minority party in a state led by Democratic politicians, one and that had just helped elect Barack Obama as president.

Shaw told McClatchy that 2008 was “carnage for Republicans.” It was the same year Democrat Kay Hagan defeated Republican Sen. Elizabeth Dole, and Bev Perdue, a Democrat, defeated Republican Pat McCrory to become governor.

“Nobody was feeling good about being a Republican,” Shaw said. “Republicans had no control to speak of.”

He added they had no infrastructure or donors.

“This guy, Thom Tillis, got it in his head that Republicans could take the majority in the legislature, in 2010, despite running in Democrat-drawn maps, with a 68-52 majority,” Shaw said. “So Tillis quit his job at Pricewaterhouse.”

PricewaterhouseCooper had merged with IBM, where Tillis was now partner. The company changed its code of conduct to allow Tillis to serve in the legislature. He gave up his salary for every day he worked at the General Assembly.

But in March 2009, Tillis stood in the legislative cafeteria, ordering his favorite fried fish sandwich when his boss called to say he needed him back full-time.

Tillis says he answered, “Look, I know everybody thinks that our Republicans are on their heels, but I’m convinced that this administration is going to overreach, and it’s ... an environment where we’ve got an opportunity to take a majority.”

Tillis said he knew he could always come back to IBM or Pricewaterhouse.

“So I quit ... before the sandwich was served,” Tillis said.

A truck and a dream

Tillis was left making $13,951 at the legislature, with a dream of flipping the state. He had the rules changed so that the majority whip — his position — would also be the campaign chair.

“He was a partner at one of the leading national management consulting firms, and he walked away from it because he thought that he could do this,” Shaw said. “Nobody else thought we could.”

Shaw vividly remembers Tillis driving “his ugly blue truck,” all over the state to recruit candidates and donors.

“It was totally data-driven,” Shaw said. “He geeked out on numbers.”

Shaw said Tillis considered it all, from voting trends to media costs to budget, to who was good and who was bad as a candidate and who could win. He would use the data to figure out which races to target.

“He was able to see around the corner to what was coming in 2010 and gave us a path,” Shaw said.

He added that Tillis’ ability to see around corners is the senator’s greatest asset.

The House flipped to Republicans, Tillis was awarded the speakership, and in the Senate, which also changed hands, Berger was named leader.

Looking at where party leadership is today, Tillis said, “I’m very, very frustrated when I see the Senate leader and the House leader at odds publicly. It’s almost gotten to a point where they’ve normalized that, and it started out of the Senate. That is not leadership. That is not keeping the team together.”

He said that kind of talk should stay in the negotiating room.

Tillis elected to U.S. Senate

Tillis joined the U.S. Senate after defeating Hagan in 2014.

Once again, Shaw said, Tillis’ decision to run, and every decision after, was all data-driven. Tillis had measurable goals he needed to hit by deadlines, or he would drop out, and that’s why rumors would circulate about his campaigns ending.

Sinema can’t remember how she and Tillis became friends, but she knows they work similarly, and when he gives her his word she doesn’t have to second-guess it.

In 2022, he and Murphy both worked with Tillis and Sen. John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, on the first major piece of gun legislation passed in nearly 30 years, following the shooting deaths of students in Uvalde, Texas.

Murphy said negotiations didn’t always go well, and at times looked like they wouldn’t survive, but it was Tillis who always kept a positive outlook. He added that Tillis fought for a conservative Republican provision — due process before guns can be temporarily taken away from people deemed dangerous under for red flag laws.

Despite that, Tillis was censured by the state party in 2023 for working on that bill.

“His core belief is that the Senate should work and that you should occasionally take risks to make it work,” Murphy said. “That hasn’t changed.”

Tillis, who is known by his colleagues for his sense of humor, met Sen. Ted Budd, a Republican from Davie County who owns a gun store and range, in 2014 at a clay shooting event.

“It was a fun time,” Budd told McClatchy, “but I joked that it was obvious that he had been more focused on legislating.” He said he still teases Tillis about his shooting skills, and Tillis is always a good sport.

Budd, who votes to the right of Tillis, said they don’t always agree on policy or politics.

“But Thom had clear vision for what North Carolina could become if we embraced strong pro-growth, pro-freedom principles,” Budd said. “He worked very hard to help deliver on that vision, and those conservative principles are still helping our state today.”

Tillis worried about GOP’s future

Tillis told McClatchy he’s concerned for the Republican Party’s future.

Tillis’ retirement sent off a frenzy of potential candidates to replace him, ultimately coming down to former N.C. Gov. Roy Cooper, a Democrat, and Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Whatley, who will face off in November.

Tillis plans to support Whatley to succeed him in the Senate. Trump recruited Whatley, and Tillis doesn’t want to see his seat go to a Democrat.

He said to expect his involvement in state races too. He’s worried that Republicans are at risk of losing the supermajority in the legislature, and even the majority. He said his party needs to realize that and act as one team to get as many Republicans elected as possible.

He said it’s not the time to “act like babies” because of certain outcomes in the primary. If someone does, he holds them responsible if the majority is lost.

“The state House majority is personal to me,” Tillis said. “The last thing that I want to have happen in the waning days of my political career is having this thing that I played a role in achieving slip out of our fingers.”

Tillis’ future

Tillis says he’s at the end of his political career.

“I’m not interested in elected office anymore,” Tillis said. “I’m ready to move on to something else.”

There are a few things Tillis anticipates for his future: heading home to Huntersville to be with his wife and “three grandbabies.”

And to continue working.

“I’m 65,” Tillis said. “I’ll probably work at this pace for about another 10 years.”

Expect him to make appearances in Raleigh, but not as a candidate for governor. He knows about and is amused by the rumors he’ll challenge N.C. Gov. Josh Stein when the Democrat’s first term is up, and said he, at times, encourages it.

He wants to consult on topics like education, behavioral health, financial service, energy, telecommunications, media and the tech sector, particularly artificial intelligence.

But he said he won’t do anything that requires him to register as a lobbyist.

“Thom is a hard worker,” Budd said. “He’s always been someone who jumps into his work headfirst. His willingness to directly engage with all stakeholders, as he did in Raleigh, is his trademark. When Thom gets rolling on something, he’s not shy about it.”

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